Leslie Hawke
You are a New Yorker, mother of well renowned celebrity, Ethan Hawke. In 2000, after 20 years of management experience in US hi tech companies you chose to join the Peace Corps and established yourself in Bacau, Romania, to support with raising funds for community social service programs. Most Peace Corps volunteers come to Romania for two years and then go back to the US. What convinced you to stay, after your assignment with Peace Corps was completed?
Staying in Romania never felt like a decision I made, it was more like a prediction I observed coming true. I knew enough about international development to know that I couldn’t possibly accomplish anything significant in a couple of years – and from very early on, I felt like I did indeed have something to offer.
And what was that?
The first thing that bothered me when I arrived in Romania was the small children who were begging on the streets, sitting alone on in pairs on the sidewalk, holding out their hands to the passers-by in front of modern banks and beautiful churches. I quickly learned that most of these little kids on the street were supporting their families. I decided to try to start a training program for the mothers of these kids. It was based on a program in New York City that rehabilitates homeless men, many of whom are ex-convicts, through a residential training program. I figured if it worked with homeless men in NY, why not with impoverished mothers in Romania? At the time I was not aware that most of the women were of Roma descent – because they weren’t the traditional Roma you always see in the media. That was nine years ago. Since then one thing has literally led to another. I met an experienced, dedicated teacher named Maria Gheorghiu; she and I started an education program for the children to work in concert with the mother’s program. We paid the women to come to training – conditional on their children going to school every day. Eventually we founded our own NGO, Asociatia Ovidiu Rom; over the years we made the programs better and we were invited to start new ones in other locations.
Over the past five years our main focus has been on getting children in school early and helping them succeed so they will STAY in school, and not drop out after four or five years.
OvidiuRom, the organization you founded in 2004, established you as a renowned advocate of the marginalized communities in Romania, in offering access to education, work prospects, and equal opportunities. How are your efforts invested today?
Our goal today is to get the government to implement on a national scale the measures we have been using over the past nine years to get and keep disadvantaged children in school. For example, in order to be successful, you have to go door to door in the poorest parts of town to recruit the most vulnerable children for school. You have to gain the trust of parents. You have to help them with the increased financial burden that school entails. You have to help them get over their fear of school authorities. You have to train teachers to deal with an influx of ill-prepared children. It’s not rocket science, but it is multi-faceted, and requires different government agencies to work in concert. This is not something they are accustomed to doing.
How are you trying to influence the government to get more actively involved?
In June, Ovidiu Rom and Telefonul Copilului will launch a public awareness campaign using famous Romanians to emphasize the importance of school and to publicize a children’s hotline whereby parents can report problems they encounter registering or keeping their children in school and where concerned citizens can report children who are not going to school.
School abandonment is actually rising in Romania and the literacy rate is falling. Devastating consequences in Romania’s job market will result unless this trend is reversed. Romania’s poorest children enter school late, attend sub-standard schools, and drop out early. I do not believe blatant, rampant discrimination is at fault. The cause is that the poor have gotten poorer and there’s no national effort to help them register their children in kindergarten and to successfully integrate them into mainstream classrooms. Everyone knows that school is not truly “free”. There are many associated costs – clothes, shoes, supplies, extra workbooks requested by teachers, periodic presents for teachers, class donations, and so forth are necessary for SUCCESS IN SCHOOL.
Romania pays parents an extra stipend if their children are labeled as “special needs” (i.e., handicapped). Thus, an incentive has been created that inadvertently encourages poor parents to send their children to “scoali speciale” instead of mainstream schools – which ultimately DOES handicap their children. The government should be providing incentives for poor people to send their four and five year old children to kindergarten – regardless of their ethnicity.
As young Romanians living abroad we are often distressed about the condition of street children and about the negative image this situation projects about Romania. How do you think people like us can get involved in supporting initiatives to improve this situation?
Street kids are a direct result of poverty and lack of education. Encourage people back home in Romania to push politicians to address the education issues. Every political party should have a policy statement about what they will do to reverse the negative trend in educational attainment. They all talk about “the importance of education” but none of the parties has a concrete plan. And that in itself is a plan to do nothing. NGOs cannot reverse this trend alone. The government HAS to take the lead, as it finally did in the US in the 1960s.
Is there any one element in the constellation of interventions that you consider the most important?
I have come to believe the single most significant thing we can do to get disadvantaged children in school early and keep them in school is to provide economic incentives to the parents. That has always been an important element of Ovidiu Rom’s programs.
There is a growing body of research that shows that rewarding poor parents in tangible ways does indeed change ingrained behaviors. A great simple example of this is a study in India that was summarized in a recent Economist article: “mothers are three times as likely to have their children vaccinated if they are rewarded with a kilogram of daal (lentils) at the immunization camp. The result is useful to aid workers, but puzzling to economists: why should such a modest incentive (worth less than 50 cents) make such a big difference? Immunization can save a child’s life; a bag of lentils should not sway the mother’s decision either way.” But it does – because the benefits are immediate and tangible.
Integrating Roma people tends to be a rather delicate issue among European countries. Although, the history of the United States shows that they have been successful in dealing with so many different ethnic groups. Based on your experience, do you find it more challenging in their case than of other minorities?
No, it’s exactly the same. Only the names have changed! My biggest frustration here is that so many otherwise intelligent people think there is something fundamentally inferior about “Gypsies”. They apply the same labels that many whites attached to blacks when I was growing up in Texas: unreliable, lazy, dirty, loud, violence-prone. Anti-social behavior is a consequence of multi-generational poverty, not of defective genes or a primitive value system. It is the same all over the world! So much has changed for the better for minorities in the United States since I was a child. It can change here too. But it absolutely has to start with early childhood education. By the time a child is 7 or 8 the die is cast.
It’s extraordinary how many Romanian people see no parallel between the situation of blacks in America and Roma in Eastern Europe. “The issue in America was bigotry and prejudice, the problem in Romania is Gypsies.” That is the prevailing attitude. And it reflects an appalling lack of insight.
What do you think can be done to change people’s attitudes?
I don’t think prejudice is something that you can talk or shame out of people. My son recently made the observation that you don’t ‘change people’s minds’, at best, you imperceptibly erode their confidence in their staunchly held belief. Invariably people are prejudiced against impoverished groups because poverty tends to bring out the worst in people. Extreme poverty may be photogenic but it’s not hygienic or character-building. It’s deeply destructive to the human spirit. Climbing out of multi-generational poverty is a matter of beating a whole constellation of odds.
People with four years of school don’t have many job options open to them. Once when I questioned a policeman about why he let children beg when it was illegal, he asked me, “And which would you rather have them do – steal or starve?” People will continue to beg and steal until they can qualify for jobs offering decent wages. And that won’t happen until they are educated at the same level as the mainstream population.
In 2005, you have been honored by the US Agency for International Development (USAID), the ‘Outstanding Citizen award, for your work with Roma street children and their families in Bacau and Bucharest, Romania. Did you ever feel that this sort of recognition was actually due to arrive from Romania?
Our work has been recognized by quite a few organizations and companies in Romania. I have to admit, my secret wish is to be given honorary Romanian citizenship someday. That would be an incredible honor!
Your son, Ethan has been an active ambassador and supporter of your programs. Could you tell us a bit more about the impact of his contribution for the benefit of children in Romania?
Being related to a celebrity gets people’s attention. It was definitely an asset in the early days when nobody had heard of Leslie Hawke or The Alex Fund or Ovidiu Rom. So just by being “Ethan Hawke” he helps the cause. He also donates financially and with his time at fundraising events. My 10 year old granddaughter is also a big supporter. I can’t wait to get her here this summer and show her our programs.
What was the most rewarding moment of your career in Romania?
Wow, that’s really hard to answer. I believe, as the American poet Walt Whitman said, “from any fruition of success shall come forth something to make a harder struggle necessary.” Whenever things are going well, I brace myself for the next hurdle. I guess that’s just my Puritan American roots.
Are there things about Romania that you have become attached to, after living almost a decade in Romania?
I am completely in love with my cottage in the wine country west of Buzau. I go up there almost every weekend. The local people are so kind and honest and hospitable; as my grandmother would say, “real salt of the earth”. The comuna where it’s located, Merei, reminds me so much of the little town where my father grew up in West Texas, and where I spent my summers as a child. No running water, very little money, but lots of wonderful food, natural beauty, and good people – and some rascals too. Basically I think human nature is the same everywhere. It can get corrupted by circumstances, but people are people.
I like rural Romania better than Texas because there aren’t any rattlesnakes, tarantulas or scorpions to worry about, it doesn’t get nearly as hot in the summer, and there are still more horse-drawn wagons on the road than pickup trucks! Otherwise, it’s pretty much the same.
Versiunea in limba romana
Esti newyorkeza, mama celebrului actor, Ethan Hawke. In 2000, dupa 20 de ani de experienta in management in companii hi tech in Statele Unite, ai ales sa te alaturi organizatiei Peace Corps si te-ai stabilit la Bacau, Romania, pentru a sustine strangerea de fonduri in programe comunitare de servicii sociale. Cei mai multi voluntari Peace Corps vin in Romania pentru doi ani si apoi se intorc in US. Ce te-a convins sa ramai, dupa ce misiunea cu Peace Corps a fost indeplinita?
Nu am simtit niciodata ca a fost decizia mea, aceea de a ramane in Romania; a fost mai mult o predictie pe care am urmarit-o cum devine realitate. Stiam suficient despre misiunile organizatiilor non-profit internationale pentru a intelege ca nu aveam cum sa realizez ceva semnificativ in doar doi ani – si inca de la inceput am simtit ca intr-adevar aveam ceva de oferit.
Si ce a fost acel lucru?
Primul lucru care m-a nemultumit cand am sosit in Romania au fost copiii care cerseau pe strazi, stind singuri sau cate doi pe trotuar, tinind mainile intinse spre trecatori in fata bancilor moderne sau bisericilor frumoase. Am aflat curand ca cei mai multi dintre acesti copii isi sustineau familiile. Am decis sa incep un program de training pentru mamele acestor copii. Era bazat pe modelul unui program din New York City care reabiliteaza oamenii strazii, foarte multi dintre ei fiind fosti condamnati, printr-un program de training rezidential. M-am gandit ca daca a functionat cu oamenii strazii din NY, de ce n-ar functiona si cu mamele sarace in Romania?
La timpul respectiv nu eram constienta ca cele mai multe dintre femei erau de origine roma – pentru ca nu aratau ca femeile roma traditionale pe care le vezi in presa. Aceasta se intampla cu noua ani in urma. De atunci, unul dupa altul, lucrurile au inceput sa se lege. Am intalnit o profesoara dedicata, cu experienta, pe nume Maria Gheorghiu; impreuna am inceput un program pentru copii, care sa lucreze cu programul dedicat mamelor. Le-am platit pe femei sa vina la training – cu conditia sa ii lase pe copii sa mearga la scoala in fiecare zi. In final am infiintat propriul nostru ONG, Asociatia Ovidiu Rom; de-a lungul anilor am imbunatatit tot mai mult programele si am primit invitatii sa incepem altele noi in locatii diferite.
In ultimii cinci ani focusul nostru principal a fost sa ii aducem pe copii in scoli cat mai devreme si sa ii sustinem in a reusi sa STEA in scoala, si nu sa renunte dupa patru-cinci ani.
OvidiuRom, organizatia pe care ai fondat-o in 2004, te-a lansat ca un advocate recunoscut al comunitatilor marginalizate din Romania, prin crearea accesului la educatie, perspective de munca si egalitate de sanse. Cum sunt eforturile tale investite astazi?
Scopul nostru astazi este sa convingem guvernul sa implementeze la scara nationala masurile pe care le-am folosit in ultimii noua ani sa-i aducem si sa ii mentinem pe copiii dezavantajati in scoala. De exemplu, pentru a avea succes, trebuie sa mergi din usa in usa in cele mai sarace zone pentru a-i recruta pentru scoala pe cei mai vulnerabili copii. Trebuie sa castigi increderea parintilor. Trebuie sa-i ajuti in privinta dificultatilor din ce in ce mai mari pe care scolile le inregistreaza. Trebuie sa-i ajuti sa-si depaseasca teama de autoritatile scolare. Trebuie sa-i pregatesti pe profesori pentru un val de copii cu o educatie redusa. Nu este "rocket science", dar implica multe fatete, si necesita colaborarea concertata a mai multor agentii guvernamentale. Iar acesta nu este un lucru pe care sunt obisnuiti sa-l faca.
In ce fel incerci sa influentezi guvernul sa se implice mai activ?
In iunie, Ovidiu Rom si Telefonul Copilului vor lansa o campanie de constientizare publica implicind celebritati romane pentru a pune in evidenta importanta scolii si a promova o linie verde unde parintii pot sa raporteze problemele pe care le intampina in procesul de inregistrare sau mentinere a copiilor lor in scoala si unde cetatenii ingrijorati pot sa sesizeze cazurile copiilor care nu merg la scoala. Rata abandonului scolar este in crestere in Romania si rata de scolarizare este in scadere. Daca aceasta tentinta nu va fi inversata, consecintele pe piata de munca din Romania vor fi devastatoare.
Cei mai saraci copii din Romania intra la scoala tarziu, merg la scoli care sunt sub standarde, si renunta devreme. Nu cred ca doar discriminarea fatisa si necontrolata este de vina. Cauza este faptul ca cei saraci au devenit si mai saraci si nu se face un efort national de a-i ajuta sa-si inregistreze copiii la gradinita si sa-i integreze cu success in scolile generale. Toata lumea stie ca scoala nu este complet “gratis”. Sunt multe costuri asociate – imbracaminte, incaltaminte, rechizite, carti aditionale cerute de profesori, cadouri periodice pentru profesori, donatia clasei, si altele, toate acestea fiind necesare pentru SUCCESUL IN SCOALA. Guvernul roman plateste parintilor o contributie in cazul in care copiii lor sunt declarati cu “nevoi speciale” (sau handicapati). Astfel, s-a creat un stimulent care, in mod neintentionat ii incurajeaza pe parintii saraci sa-si trimita copiii la “scoli speciale” in loc de cele generale – ceea ce pana la urma creeaza un handicap real pentru copii. Guvernul ar trebui sa ofere stimulente financiare pentru oamenii saraci pentru a-si trimite copiii de patru sau cinci ani la gradinita – fara a tine cont de apartenenta etnica.
Cei ca noi, romani care traiesc in afara tarii suntem adesea preocupati de conditia copiilor strazii si imaginea negativa pe care aceasta situatia o proiecteaza asupra Romaniei. Cum consideri ca oameni ca noi pot sa se implice pentru a sustine initiative sa imbunatateasca aceasta situatie?
Copiii strazii sunt rezultatul direct al saraciei si lipsei de educatie. Incurajati-i pe cei de acasa in Romania sa puna presiune asupra politicienilor pentru a rezolva problema educatiei. Fiecare partid politic ar trebui sa aiba un mesaj politic despre ce vor face sa refaca trendul negativ in obtinerea educatiei. Toti vorbesc despre “importanta educatiei” dar nici unul dintre partidele politice nu are un plan concret. Si luat ca atare, acesta este un plan de a nu face nimic. Aceasta tendinta nu poate fi influentata numai de ONG-uri. Guvernul TREBUIE sa ia controlul, asa cum a facut cel American pana la urma in anii ’60.
Este vreun element in constelatia de interventii pe care il consideri cel mai important?
Am ajuns la concluzia ca cel mai semnificativ lucru pe care il putem face sa ii aducem pe copii in scoli cat mai devreme ca varsta si sa-i mentinem in scoli este sa oferim stimulente economice pentru parinti. Acesta a fost intotdeauna un element important in programele Ovidiu Rom.
Exista o tot mai mare baza de cercetare care arata ca oferind compensatii pentru parinti in forme concrete, schimba practic comportamente incetatenite deja. Un exemplu simplu si relevant in acest sens este un studiu facut in India, care a fost sumarizat intr-un articol recent in Economist: “mamele sunt de trei ori mai dornice sa aiba copiii vaccinati daca sunt recompensate cu un kilogram de linte, in tabara de imunizare. Rezultatul este util pentru asistentii sociali, dar surprinzator pentru economisti: cum de asa un stimulent modest (care valoreaza mai putin de 50 de centi) face o asa de mare diferenta? Imunizarea poate sa salveze viata unui copil; o punga de linte n-ar trebui sa influenteze decizia mamei in nici un caz.” Dar o face – pentru ca beneficiile sunt imediate si tangibile. Integrarea persoanelor de etnie roma este o problema delicata pentru tarile europene care nu s-au inspirat se pare din diferitele evenimente similare care au marcat istoria Statelor Unite, o tara care a reusit sa coordoneze cu succes integrarea grupurilor entice.
Bazat pe experienta ta, ti se pare o provocare mai mare integrarea minoritatii roma spre deosebire de alte minoritati?
Nu, este exact aceeasi situatie. Numai numele s-au schimbat! Cea mai mare frustrare a mea aici in tara se leaga de faptul ca foarte multi oameni, inteligenti de altfel, considera ca exista anumite aspecte fundamental inferioare in legatura cu « Tiganii ». Au tendinta sa puna aceleasi etichete pe care multi albi le atribuisera negrilor in vremea copilariei mele in Texas : lenesi, murdari, stridenti si zgomotosi, cu tendinte spre violenta si in general iresponsabili. Comportamentul anti-social este o consecinta a saraciei instaurate de generatii nu a unor deficiente genetice si nici a unui sistem primitiv de valori. Se intampla la fel pretutindeni in lume! Foarte multe s-au schimbat totusi in bine pentru minoritatile din Statele Unite fata de vremea cand eram copil. Lucrurile se pot schimba si in Romania. Dar trebuie in mod absolut sa inceapa cu educatie de la o varsta cat mai frageda. Cand un copil ajunge la 7 sau la 8 ani, zarurile sunt déjà aruncate!
E surprinzator ca multi dintre romani nu vad nicio paralela intre situatia negrilor din America si cea a romilor din Europa. “Problemele in America erau bigotismul si prejudecatile, problema romanilor este reprezentata de Tigani” Aceasta este atitudinea care predomina. Si reflecta o teribila lipsa de introspectie.
Ce crezi ca se poate face pentru a schimba atitudinea oamenilor ?
Nu cred ca oamenii pot fi convinsi prea usor sa renunte la prejudecatile pe care le au sau sa se rusineze de.ele. Recent, fiul meu a facut o observatie in legatura cu faptul ca nu poti sa-i faci pe ceilalti “sa-si schimbe punctul de vedere”, in cel mai bun caz reusesti sa erodezi, imperceptibil poate, increderea ferma in principiile lor. Invariabil, oamenii incep sa aiba prejudecati fata de grupurile sarace pentru ca saracia tinde sa scoata la iveala tot ce e mai rau in oameni. Saracia extrema poate fi fotogenica dar nu e igienica sau constructiva pentru personalitate. Este de fapt profund distructiva pentru spiritul uman. Depasirea saraciei de generatii este o chestiune de reusita impotriva unei constelatii de incertitudini. Oamenii cu patru ani de scoala nu au prea multe optiuni de a-si gasi un loc de munca.
La un moment dat, cerand socoteala unui politist in legatura cu faptul ca permitea copiilor sa cerseasca desi era ilegal, m-a intrebat: “Si ce-ati prefera sa le permitem sa faca, sa fure sau sa moara de foame?” Oamenii vor continua sa cerseasca si sa fure pana cand vor reusi sa se califice pentru joburi care sa ofere salarii decente. Si aceasta nu se va intampla pana cand nu vor fi educati la acelasi nivel ca majoritatea populatiei.
In 2005, Agentia Statelor Unite pentru Dezvoltare Internationala (USAID) ti-a conferit premiul de “Outstanding Citizen” pentru eforturile si munca ta cu copiii romi ai strazii si familiile lor din Bacau si Bucuresti, Romania. Ai simtit vreodata ca o astfel de recunoastere ar fi trebuit sa vina de fapt din partea Romaniei?
Munca noastra a fost de fapt recunoscuta de cateva organizatii si companii din Romania. Trebuie insa sa recunosc, dorinta mea secreta (facuta acum plublica) este sa mi se ofere cetatenie romana de onoare intr-o buna zi. Ar reprezenta pentru mine o onoare incredibila!
Fiul tau, Ethan este un ambasador si suporter activ al programelor pe care le dezvolti. Ai putea sa ne spui mai multe despre impactul contributiilor lui in beneficiul copiilor din Romania ?
Legatura cu o celebritate atrage in mod sigur atentia. A fost cu siguranta un avantaj mai ales la inceput cand nimeni nu auzise inca de Leslie Hawke, de Alex Fund sau Ovidiu Rom. Asadar, doar pentru ca este « Ethan Hawke » el sustine cauza. Ethan se implica si cu donatii financiare si participa chiar la evenimentele de fundraising. Nepoata mea de 10 ani este de asemenea un mare suporter. Abia astept sa vina in vizita in Romania in aceasta vara si sa-i arat mai mult din ceea ce facem.
Care a fost cel mai rewarding moment al carierei tale in Romania?
Wow, este intr-adevar destul de greu sa raspund. Eu cred, asa cum spune si poetul american Walt Whitman ca “orice fructificare a unui succes aduce cu sine invariabil ceva care sa faca necesara o lupta si mai grea”. De fiecare data cand lucrurile merg bine, ma pregatesc si imi fac curaj pentru o urmatoare infruntare. Cred ca acest mod de viata vine din radacinile mele americane puritane.
Exista in Romania lucruri de care te-ai atasat, traind mai bine de 10 ani in Romania?
Sunt absolut indragostita de casa mea in regiunea de podgorii la Vest de Buzau. Merg acolo aproape in fiecare weekend. Localnicii sunt foarte atenti si sinceri si ospitalieri ; asa cum ar spunea bunica mea « real salt of the earth ». Comuna in care se afla casuta, Merei, imi aminteste mult de un mic oras din Vestul Texasului unde a crescut tatal meu si unde mi-am petrecut si eu multe veri in copilarie. Fara apa curenta, foarte putini bani dar cu multa mancare minunata, frumusete naturala si oameni buni – si cativa marginali bineinteles. Eu cred insa ca natura umana este aceeasi pretutindeni. Poate sa fie afectata de imprejurari dar oamenii raman oameni.
Imi place zona rurala in Romania mai mult decat in Texas pentru ca aici nu trebuie sa-ti faci griji pentru serpii cu clopotei, tarantule si scorpioni, vremea e mai racoroasa vara si sunt inca mai multe carute trase de cai pe drum decat camioane. Altfel, seamana destul de mult!
